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Poster: Ed Watts Date: Jul 16, 2012 8:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

I just posted an analysis of Furthur's 8-night run at the Beacon this past April to the Grateful Dead's 9-night run at Madison Square Garden in 1991 on my blog:

http://rockandrollnerd.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/the-boys-take-manhattan-the-beacon-theater-2012-vs-madison-square-garden-1991/

I would love to get your feedback.

Thanks!
-Ed

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Poster: ColdRain108 Date: Jul 17, 2012 12:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

that is like comparing LSD to pot or beer. One was intergalactic transportation and one is just fun and games. I like that JK knows how to accent the remaining musical genius (Phil). He stays out of Phil's way and allows me to enjoy the sinuous nature of GD bass playing w/o his ego getting in the way. He knows his role in Furthur...

DSO is cool rock music.

Only the Grateful Dead "Weren't the best at what they did, they were the only ones that did what they did". And none of the post Jerry incarnations come within 10000000000000000000 miles of what the real thing did. Lots of form, but so much less soul.

This post was modified by Little Sense on 2012-07-17 19:06:04

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Poster: DeadRed1971 Date: Jul 17, 2012 9:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

Quick question:

Who is the better Bobby clone? Rob Eaton or Bob Weir?





Sent from Crete Carrier Corporation truck #34350 coming soon to a truckstop near you.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Jul 17, 2012 12:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

To even make such a comparison -- and especially to do so in such exhaustive detail -- shows me that you fundamentally do not understand what the Grateful Dead was all about. There is simply nothing to compare with the electricity and anticipation that one felt knowing that you were about to see Jerry Garcia play with the Grateful Dead. And I say that as someone who didn't see the GD until 1990, when, admittedly, the flashes of transcendent, intergalactic brilliance were sometimes few and far between. Substitute someone else for Garcia and this is what you get -- a thoroughly-researched, statistically-significant "proof" that Furthur is somehow comparable with the GD. If that were really the case, would we need to go through such an exercise? Wouldn't it be self-evident?

Furthur might be a good time for some, but make no mistake, the Grateful Dead died with Garcia.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jul 17, 2012 12:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

I get what you are saying, and I agree with about 75% of it. I think it's obvious that the current manifestations are not and never will be the Dead, so it's beyond me why folks get their pants all lathered up and foaming at the mouth that DSO or Furthur aren't the Dead.

I will disagree with you on your comment that:

"There is simply nothing to compare with the electricity and anticipation that one felt knowing that you were about to see Jerry Garcia play with the Grateful Dead."

Different strokes for different folks, but I distinctly remember the same electricity and anticipation when Bill Monroe and the Bluegrass Boys were introduced at the Grand Ole Opry in December of 1983 while then, young Mrs. Mando-to-be and yours truly sat second row 20 feet away. Very few people can say they saw the seminal figure in the creation of a genre of music. Bluegrass fans who saw Bill Monroe and Lester and Earl or even Doc Watson can number themselves among the lucky, relative few. Any new bluegrass fan today will never have that chance. The elctricity was identical.

I also recall similar feelings this past May at the Virginia Arts Festival watching the curtain go up and sitting stunned for the next hour and a half watching Itzhak Perlman weave magic from his violin. Mozart, Shostakovich and Mendelssohn may be dead, but Perlman brought them back to life for a brief moment.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Jul 17, 2012 1:29pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

You make a fair point: the greats are the greats. Jerry's not the only one but I put him in a pretty rarefied group of truly innovative artists.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Jul 17, 2012 5:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

" I think it's obvious that the current manifestations are not and never will be the Dead, so it's beyond me why folks get their pants all lathered up and foaming at the mouth that DSO or Furthur aren't the Dead."

I completely agree 100%. What's wrong with having a good time listening to great songs? Nothing for me ever comes close to the real deal. I wish it would. I've seen a lot of the prominent live bands and a lot of them are very good and very talented, a lot of times more so than GD form a technical point of view, but none not one did anything for me even close to that magnitude. I wish. As for post Jerry bands I saw " the Dead" and I thought it sucked and did not have a good time, I saw the Comes A Time show at the Greek and it was absolutely wonderful in fact better than the last two Dead shows I saw in 92, I saw DSO at the GAMH ( with our buddy High Flow ) and up here a couple of years ago and even though the vocals sucked I had a killer time both times. Even though the whole imitation thing is really cheesy to me I can think of a lot worse ways to spend an evening. That said what does bug me about DSO is I think their heads are so damn big they actually think they are a legitimate band or the GD. Freakin $35 a ticket AND the nerve to sell merchandise? REALLY? Oh well to each their own but taping these shows and especially buying them is just beyond my comprehension. But I had a great time and I'd definitely go again.

Last - As everyone especially my buddy BD knows I put Wilco at the top of live bands playing now both in craftsmanship ( especially ) and musically. As for being transported some of the most intense playing I've experienced since the real deal were two Kimock shows I saw up here. Definitely some woah WTF just happend moments

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Jul 17, 2012 7:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

" I think it's obvious that the current manifestations are not and never will be the Dead, so it's beyond me why folks get their pants all lathered up and foaming at the mouth that DSO or Furthur aren't the Dead."

"I completely agree 100%. What's wrong with having a good time listening to great songs? "

This. Thank you.
Will this wrangling never end? ... we know they aren't the Grateful Dead, we know we can't bring Jerry back, but why does it have to somehow be wrong to still want to listen to the music, to still hear what Bob and Phil are up to?

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Poster: Capt. Cook Date: Jul 17, 2012 12:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

Like Plato staring at the wall and thinking its really fire...

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Poster: pdm59 Date: Jul 16, 2012 9:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

Damn, that involved a lot of work. Interesting all around, on stage, behind the scenes, Un-useless Dead Stats. I will share this with a few of my friends.

For the record I never was interested in keeping set lists of shows I attended. That was work, I was there to enjoy the show. The forum has been an endless source of info that allows me to experience the Dead more than when I saw shows.

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Poster: leftwinger57 Date: Jul 17, 2012 1:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

If you did that blog ,article ,comparison it was great.I also was never and mean never into set lists and solos and times I just cared if I had a great time and for the most part they were winners.In 2009 I went to see The Dead at Izod and all I remeber is the opening U.S.Blues the drums were miked exceptionally well and Warren Haynes could play w/ anyone.To compare the two or any cover band is nuts w/ saying that, you shoot back a couple and listen to RailRoad Earth do their Dead thing and it's not half bad.Any comparisions w/ Jerry is laughable although at times the man can so God Damn disappointing...

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Jul 16, 2012 11:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

Excellent. Well-researched, nicely written.
What's really surprising is that nothing else in your blog is like it.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Jul 17, 2012 12:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

Jerry Garcia versus that guy from DSO living out his wet dream? Please, for the love of buddha, stop the madness....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8Ka17LIIfU

and bad pizza still sucks.

someone shouted out who killed jerry, when after all, it was just you and me....

cheap thrills....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VMT1ev8rAg&;feature=related

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2012-07-17 06:54:13

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2012-07-17 07:07:17

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Jul 17, 2012 2:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

> and bad pizza still sucks.

Hear. Hear. To elevate this beyond all proportions of silliness, be it rumor or fact that found it's way into Tacitus history, every Julian emperor was worse then Augustus b/c the current emperor did not not want to be outshone by his heir. So they picked a little worse each time. I guess Claudius was a decent emperor, but he was in the Caligula, Nero sandwich, so who wouldn't look good or at least better? I've listened to these bands as critically as GD and I find it laughable that any comparison is possible.

Post Jerry guitarists that don't have their own deal already going, and even then, suck. And suck badly. It's what I imagine having sex with a blow up doll would be like. (Anyone wanting to share feel free.) Folks that like Furthur & DSO for example, God bless, but nobody is going to get pumped up about 50th anniversary shows as they will for GD from 2015 (a short celebration) to 2045.

An aside about Furthur. It just is a shame that they didn't give the slot to someone that was young and had talent b/c that person could have been a direct legacy of the music sharing it with Phil and Bobby live.

I don't mean to plague your posts BD, they are just getting the motor running.

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Poster: Skobud Date: Jul 17, 2012 5:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: It's what I imagine having sex with a blow up doll would be like.

There is no comparing the two, really. This discussion actually gets under my skin a little as well, in the sense that people have such deep seated hangups about the band. I totally understand that. I really do.......My solution is - don't freaking go then.....If you cannot leave your hangups at the door you are going to have a shitty show. If you are going to have a good time and support Bobby and Phil - I think that is awesome. Every Furthur show i have been to I see people having a great time. If you are going in expecting to see GD you are in the wrong place.


Micah - It looks like you are saying they picked JK because he is not that good? Am I reading your emperor analogy correctly? I gotta tell ya I definately disagree with you on that if that is indeed what you are saying. Ive seen him do some pretty mind blowing shit - yes its Jerry's shit - but what else can the dude do? They need a fake Jerry and imo there are only three, maybe four out there. JK, Dave Hebert(f*n amazing), Kimock and Warren.

I guess Im just sayin' it is what it is. Go and have a good time or just leave it alone. You don't have to bang a blow up doll to understand its not for you.....Just don't blow it up, don't bang it and dont bemoan about blowing it up and banging it - when you have never even done it to begin with.

Every experience is not for every person. Comparing going to a Furthur show to fucking a blowup doll is about as far fetched as Ive heard - esecially due to the fact that you have experienced neither.

Honestly - What would you have them do - Quit? After being on the road their whole lives with each other? I dont think its that easy, especially when the market is absolutely there.


Sorry for the hijack Ed Watts....I dug your analysis.

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Jul 17, 2012 9:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's what I imagine having sex with a blow up doll would be like.

“They need a fake Jerry and imo there are only three, maybe four out there. JK, Dave Hebert(f*n amazing), Kimock and Warren. “

Not sure what your criteria is for a “fake Jerry,” but for me, it implies who emulates him the best. In that case, I think Stu Allen, Jeff Mattson, Dave A'Bear, and JK are all pretty damn good “fake Jerrys,” particularly Stu Allen and Mattson.

Kimock and Warren really add their own dimension and sound to Jerry's music, and don't attempt to clone his sound like the aforementioned guitarists. Kimock is by far my favorite, because he really branches away from the songs' structures, and takes the jams to places I've never heard them go. It's refreshing to hear a Jerry song I've heard thousands of times, in a new and exciting arrangement. While I really like the the Jerry clones, I feel I can almost anticipate all the notes that they're playing as I listen.

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Poster: Skobud Date: Jul 17, 2012 9:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's what I imagine having sex with a blow up doll would be like.

You're definately right about Allen and Mattson who I left out. I was by no means slamming these guys by calling them "fake" Jerry. I understand how it could read that way.

I was lucky enough to see Dave Hebert(A'Bear) when JGB came to Buffalo a few months ago. He was incredible. Here's a little Tough Mama so you can see what Im talking about. I was sitting right behind Melvin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmApb_bNNj8&;feature=plcp



This post was modified by Skobud on 2012-07-17 16:48:07

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Jul 17, 2012 11:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's what I imagine having sex with a blow up doll would be like.

I saw him with JGB too recently, in Brooklyn. $12 tix with Moonalice as the opener. Best show I've ever seen under $20. Melvin is still amazing too. He played a phenomenal solo for TWLWMYD, and had the place goin' nuts. The dude seriously needs to lose some weight though, or I don't see him being around a whole lot longer. I watched him try to walk up a flight of stairs after the show and it was pretty sad.

I was so impressed by Dave though. I was already a huge fan of Stu Allen and didn't think Dave could match him, but he comes damn close.

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Poster: dustbowltom Date: Jul 18, 2012 12:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's what I imagine having sex with a blow up doll would be like.

Right arm Bro. ! Dave "A Bear"! Woo-Hoo..I used to see Dave w. Xtra Ticket here in Tempe every Thursday night or Tuesday night...still plays w/ "Ticket" at the same dive "Sail Inn" when not touring w/ JGB and Dave is LEGIT...he is humble he would deny the Kimock comparison in a heartbeat and very friendly. He does ferocious versions of Althea, Tears of Rage...Visions..Senor... he channels 68 Jerry, '73 Jerry 1975 Freeky jazzy deconstructionist Jerry kind of thang..dredging it out into the depths....even hits '83-93 Jerry.You must go see JGB..of course for the whole but also to see the fractal that is Dave "A Bear". We love Dave in The Grand Canyon State...check out Xtra Ticket on Internet Archive....

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Poster: dustbowltom Date: Jul 18, 2012 12:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's what I imagine having sex with a blow up doll would be like.

Right arm Bro. ! A Dave "A Bear" reference !! Woo-Hoo..I used to see Dave w. Xtra Ticket here in Tempe every Thursday night or Tuesday night...still plays w/ "Ticket" at the same dive "Sail Inn" when not touring w/ JGB and Dave is LEGIT...he is humble he would deny the Kimock comparison in a heartbeat and very friendly. He does ferocious versions of Althea, Tears of Rage...Visions..Senor... he channels 68 Jerry, '73 Jerry 1975 Freeky jazzy deconstructionist Jerry kind of thang..dredging it out into the depths....even hits '83-93 Jerry.You must go see JGB..of course for the whole but also to see the fractal that is Dave "A Bear". We love Dave in The Grand Canyon State...

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Jul 17, 2012 4:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: It's what I imagine having sex with a blow up doll would be like.

are you saying that you have imagined having sex with a blow up doll!!???

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jul 17, 2012 6:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: I Don't Get It........

Could be that I am slow, but I don't quite understand the DSO, Furthur, Any-Band-That-Covers-Or-Plays-The-Dead bashing?

When I go see Furthur or DSO I don't go secretly hoping that all of a sudden Jerry is going to magically appear, takeover and all will be once again right with the Universe?

For those who never got to see the Dead live, Furthur or DSO are pretty good options. Neither band is trying to pass themselves off as the Dead - arguably DSO is, but don't fool yourselves, the band members know they aren't the Dead, they are just doing their best to recreate what once was.

As to the (implied) comment that Jeff Mattson or John K. suck? You gotta be fucking kidding me right?

http://archive.org/details/dso2012-05-08.nak.shivaho.flac16

Skip to Morning Dew, the vocals....? Meh. The guitar? Pretty fucking good.

"Well, he's no Jerry."

No shit...........

They might suck at being your image of Jerry - but even Jerry sometimes sucked at being Jerry.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jul 17, 2012 8:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........

One of the reasons I like P+F, or Ratdog, sometimes better than Furthur , is that they are further (ouch) form the GD, and don't bring up feelings of "something is off" as often . But it is waht it is , and they are waht they are , and I enjoy them .
I like John K.'s ( as opposed to John Kay ..."Born to be w...") guitar playing, but don't really love it . Don't much care for his singing at all, but, Phil is no great singer, and even Bob is not great these days .

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jul 17, 2012 10:03am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........

D2 -

I have to agree with you on John K's singing. It always struck me that he was trying to sing exactly like Jerry - to the point that you could see him screwing his face up to get "that" sound. I like his guitar work, but he is almost too clean with his riffs and licks.

Mattson's singing isn't even close to Jerry and I think that's why people either like it or not. I happen to like it because it DOESN'T sound like Jerry, but it took some getting used to to hear a Dead tune sung in a voice that didn't "fit" expectations or previous experience. His guitar work is phenomenal - check out some of his older stuff with the Tricksters.

Same for Rob Barraco, really good stuff with DSO, but his keys work before DSO is pretty darn good too.

7 days and a wake up until FloydFest.....

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Poster: UnbrokenChain Date: Jul 18, 2012 8:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........

When he was in DSO years and years ago, his mannerisms were much more evident. He doesn't do that stuff nearly as much nowadays, and personally I think he has a good voice of his own as well, so he can sing the Jerry songs without sounding just like Jerry.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Jul 17, 2012 10:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........

I should say I think Phil, and Bob want to avoid a "Guitar hero" band . One of the complaints about, say 77 shows, is that there is little interplay, and more Garcia guitar solos than actual jams, now I love those solos, but I can see the point .
Also, I think Jeff Chementi gets more space that most keyboard players did in the Grateful Dead . I think if you listen to Furthur more as group effort, and less of a lead guitar dominated band (maybe with Bob, and Phil, they spent enough of their time under the shadow of the "big guy") it is more rewarding . What John is playing is not thrilling you ? Then listen to Phil, or Jeff , etc.

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Poster: jolly mon Date: Jul 17, 2012 10:57am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: hey mando

Hey mando, I'm sure you got your tix but here's a listing at lynchburg craiglist for tix floyd fest:
http://lynchburg.craigslist.org/tix/3122315932.html
enjoy the show, will be at beach with family but hope to make it to festy at backbone brewry.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jul 17, 2012 11:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: hey mando

jolly -

I have only one thing on my Christmas list and that's my ticket to FloydFest. This will be my 7th time. I've bit the bullet and ponied up the money for VIP tickets for the past two years, but IMO that's the way to go. Early entry and on-site parking are pretty damn good perks, as are the private sound check parties, two meals a day and a bottomless beer cup, but the real attraction is all access and the opportunity to meet the artists up close and personal.

Not sure if you saw my post about last year, but I was sitting in the catering tent eating lunch when up walks Sam Cutler and asks if he could join us?!?!? A minute or two later Jorma and Jack came up and sat down at the table with us. In a situation like that, I'd always left it up to the artists to drive the conversation - or not. We had a nice 10 minute small talk conversation with Jorma and Jack. About 5 minutes into the meal they figured out that my buddy had absolutely no clue who they were and for some reason they thought that was hilarious. I suppose the stream of questions like "Is this your first time here?" or "Are you guys in a band?" gave it away that my buddy was a complete live music virgin and they appeared to be genuinely amused by his naivete.

Cutler didn't say much because he was wasted, but we had a nice conversation with Jorma and Jack.

I'll see you at Festy - I already got my 4 day pass. You better check the site soon, they are doing a price tier on tickets this year and the last couple of options get pretty expensive. Looking forward to the special brew that DBB will have on tap this time. Last year's "Dusters" 10 Point IPA was fabulous.

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Poster: jerlouvis Date: Jul 17, 2012 8:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5PUw2ERMX8

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Jul 18, 2012 2:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........

"but even Jerry sometimes sucked at being Jerry. " oh really with all due respect...WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU!!! you dont suck at being you, you just suck!!!

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Poster: Mooding Date: Jul 18, 2012 2:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........or......Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

WOW do several of you REALLY need to relax and maybe take a break from the computer for a while.

Skobud summed it up best - don't like it? don't go.

To which I'd add and stop complaining about how much you don't like it. Furthur mixes up setlists and offers truly seamless segues between unexpected songs far more often than I ever saw the Grateful Dead do (75+- shows). And I love it.

Ed, your post is obviously amazingly well researched and I'm going to have to read the sucker again to absorb it better. Maybe draw some pictures while doing it. Thanks!

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jul 18, 2012 7:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........

Who the fuck am I? Dude, you made my day with that question.

The exact same person I was since the day I first came to this site.

Which can't be said of you.....

Now, as is my approach to dealing with insufferable douchebag trolls such as yourself, I bid you a fond farewell. Off to the basement with you.

Since this is the last time you will ever get a response from me, let me ask you a favor. Say hello to skies for me.

You two window lickers should get along swimmingly.

CRAVEN!!!!!!! Throw another 50 foot-pounds on that valve will ya?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 18, 2012 8:30am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........

Given that the crazy little shithouse rat to whom your well judged remarks are addressed fairly obviously lacks the mental capacity to appreciate them fully, I'd just like to say here that, personally speaking, I laughed like a fucking drain.

Top notch stuff, Commander Jammer. I hope others will take note.

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Poster: Mandojammer Date: Jul 18, 2012 8:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........

I think I may have left out a few commas and a hyphen.

I wasn't sure if window licker should be window-licker?

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 18, 2012 8:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........

Save that spare punctuation for the next time some contemptible halfwit comes within torpedo range. If history teaches us anything it won't be a long wait...

Oh yeah, hyphens, use as sparingly as possible.

:-)

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Poster: Jacky Hughes Date: Jul 18, 2012 11:48am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Punctuation

Punctuation is the difference between:

Knowing your shit
and
Knowing you're shit.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Jul 18, 2012 12:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Punctuation saves lives

Lets-eat-grandma.jpg

This post was modified by robthewordsmith on 2012-07-18 19:21:18

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Poster: Jacky Hughes Date: Jul 18, 2012 11:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: I Don't Get It........

Nicely said Mr Jammer.